We’re in a Norwegian valley, high above the Arctic Circle. It’s late afternoon in early March and a group of more than a dozen infantry Marines are standing around two chaplains, one American and the other Norwegian. It’s windy, cold. The Marines hold laminated prayer cards in dense gloves, and some are shifting back and forth to stay warm. A radio chatters in the background with reports from the front.
“That symbol – that cross – came to signify that Rome could force people to obey out of fear, obedience out of fear of being raised upon that cross,” a Marine chaplain said. “And Christ says, 'I will destroy the fear of death and dying. I myself will be raised upon that cross in order to evoke life and hope.'”
Article Five of the NATO agreement – if one is attacked, all are attacked – is a provision that binds these NATO countries together. The last – and only – time it has been invoked was in the aftermath of 9/11 when “NATO rallied in support of the USA,” according to Vice Adm. Doug Perry, commander of Joint Force Command-Norfolk. Decades later, he said the alliance is now more relevant than ever because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
We spent time with the Marines miles above the Arctic Circle in Norway as part of the largest NATO exercise in the region since 1988. We spoke to Norwegians, Swedes and Finns as well – all nations that contributed to America’s fight in Afghanistan, and all lost troops to it, too. Now, those countries are on the brink of an uncertain future.
Main Topics
Host Drew F. Lawrence travels to Norway to cover the Marine Corps and its training with U.S. allies in the High North.
Additional Resources
- Above the Arctic Circle, Infantry Marines Are Improvising to Battle Harsh Conditions as Part of NATO Force
- Inside a Navy Shock Trauma Platoon Deployed to NATO Exercise and What It's Learning from the Ukraine War
- Military Commanders Rejoice at New NATO Members Amid Huge Joint Exercise and Russia's Looming Shadow
- Supply or Die: Sustaining Marines in the High North so They Can Fight and Win a Future War
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Transcript:
SPEAKERS
Norwegian Chaplain, LT Kathleen Laboa, MONTAGE, Drew F. Lawrence, American Chaplain, Former President Donald Trump, Ville, Vice Adm. Doug Perry, HM2 Zachery Matthews, Marine Sergeant
Norwegian Chaplain
[Singing]
Drew F. Lawrence
We’re in a Norwegian valley, high above the Arctic Circle. It’s late afternoon in early March and a group of over a dozen infantry Marines are standing around an American and Norwegian chaplain. It’s windy, cold. The Marines hold laminated prayer cards in dense gloves, some are shifting back and forth to stay warm. A radio chatters in the background with reports from the front.
American Chaplain
That symbol – that cross – came to signify that Rome could force people to obey out of fear, obedience out of fear of being raised upon that cross. And Christ says, I will destroy the fear of death and dying. I myself will be raised upon that cross in order to evoke life and hope.
Drew F. Lawrence
Roughly 150 miles from the Russian border, it is a spiritual moment for the weary Marines who have been working, shoveling snow, and practicing their military tactics in Norway for over a month and in Nordic countries for even longer.
American Chaplain
So I challenge you not only to think on that cross, but on your role…as United States Marines, as members of NATO, as members of this allied group of people – that we are a symbol of hope.
MONTAGE
Former President Donald Trump
Will you protect us? I said, you didn't pay? You're delinquent? No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.
Vice Adm. Doug Perry
NATO's adversaries and potential adversaries should and I'm certain are taking note…we are willing to defend every inch of our allied territory.
Drew F. Lawrence
Two years ago, Russia embarked on a full-scale invasion into Ukraine. Since then, at least 10s of thousands of Ukrainians are estimated to have been killed. Two countries – Sweden and Finland have joined the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO as Russia proves to be an increasingly unstable neighbor. NATO leaders, like Vice Adm. Doug Perry, who you just heard, and even some Marines on the ground in Norway Fire Watch spoke to said they would protect NATO if attacked, fulfilling promises made in international treaties. Others, like former President and GOP frontrunner Donald Trump, have indicated otherwise. One Marine, a sergeant who maintains HIMARS rocket launchers put it in his own words.
Marine Sergeant
If Putin decides to get ballsy and go off and do worse things and he's doing right now, I'm gonna be back out here fixing these for us and for other countries, helping them out.
Drew F. Lawrence
Article Five of the NATO agreement – if one is attacked, all are attacked – is a provision that binds these NATO countries together. Perry told Fire Watch that the last – and only – time it has been invoked was in the aftermath of 9/11 when “NATO rallied in support of the USA.” Decades later, he said the alliance was now more relevant than ever because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Vice Adm. Doug Perry
The message is clear. We are all stronger together.
Drew F. Lawrence
We spent time with the Marines miles above the Arctic Circle in Norway as part of the largest NATO exercise in the region since 1988. We spoke to Norwegians, Swedes and Finns as well – all nations that contributed to America’s fight in Afghanistan, all nations that lost troops to it, too. Now, those countries are on the brink of an uncertain future. For Military.com, my name is Drew Lawrence. It is March 29. And this is Fire Watch. At a small defensive position in a Norwegian valley Marines were at work. Digging tent positions, trudging through snow, listening, watching. Snowmobiles and Bandvagn – tracked Norwegian vehicles made specifically for traversing the snow – came in and out of the outpost with supplies and troops. The Marines and their Norwegian counterparts were expecting contact with a simulated enemy. The operation was part of the second largest NATO exercise since the early ‘50s, just years after the alliance formed. The exercise is taking place as partner Nordic nations face an increasingly aggressive Russia in the frigid north. That is part – a large part – of why U.S. forces are in the Arctic supporting NATO, according to experts, American service members, U.S. allies and NATO leaders Fire Watch heard from for this episode. But it’s not just about Russia. Here’s Vice Adm. Perry again.
Vice Adm. Doug Perry
Even climate change, which is driving increased access to the Arctic region, opening up the Northern Sea Route, creating a demand signal for access to resources in the Arctic, to generating claims by nations to resources on the seabed, that is driving competition in the Arctic.
Drew F. Lawrence
Becca Wasser, a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, said that competition in the Arctic is expanding.
Arctic is part of sort of the broader global commons. It's not just the United States and NATO who are present in the Arctic, you have Russian presence and to a certain extent burgeoning Chinese presence as well. So if you're looking at the Arctic, it's a critical region.
Drew F. Lawrence
But not everyone in the U.S. sees that. Fire Watch asked Perry to address a small, but loud group of Americans that are advocating for reduced participation in NATO and in an even smaller minority wanting to get out of the alliance altogether. In a statement, he emphasized the decades-long alliance that ties the continents together. He said “NATO contributes to American homeland security on a daily basis” in that it continually works with other units to protect American airspace. If Russia invades one of these Nordic countries, it would be calling for U.S. help using the exact same treaty language America turned to when leaning on NATO after New York City was attacked. In light of that, does America owe these countries?
So I don’t think it’s a debt…I think that this has been an alliance that the United States has been a part of, since its inception and played a role in its inception. And the United States has had long standing treaty alliances, and this is one and when we say an attack on one is an attack on all we need to mean it. And 9/11, with Article Five being invoked, that is a great example of an attack on one is an attack on all. It's not that we owe them a debt, it's that when we were attacked, they understood that it was an attack on them.
Drew F. Lawrence
We also interviewed a member of the Finnish military. His name is Ville, he runs a channel called Mighty Finland. We’re only going to refer to him by his first name. You know, if you don't mind me saying like, why, you know, why is that important?
Ville
So you can never be too careful. We live in very precarious times. And Russia is definitely trying to influence us and anybody who really works in this field, so just taking my precautions.
Drew F. Lawrence
Ville told us about Finland, its culture which is integrated with the military as a collective defense against Russia. Finland has been dealing with its problematic neighbor for centuries on its own but joined NATO in 2023 in response to the invasion of Ukraine.
Ville
We have the saying: It's all fun and games until the snow starts speaking Finnish. We can't change anything about the fact that we have a long border with Russia. We will always have to deal with that and we have to deal with it in a very realistic manner. There's no daydreaming about it.
Drew F. Lawrence
As a member of the Finnish military, he worked side by side with the U.S. in exercises similar to Nordic Response ‘24. He understands that collective deterrence first hand and the defense against global threats to the West. On NATO supporting the aftermath of 9/11, he said:
Ville
I personally wouldn't look too much back into history and kind of like a tit for tat thing. You know, what happened back then was a great show of solidarity. But right now we need to live in this moment and look into the future. If you want peace, you got to prepare for war… No amount of running away from the realities of international power politics is going to make the possibility of war go away any further, in fact, quite the contrary.
Drew F. Lawrence
Miles away from the infantry Marines hunkered in the valley, a Navy shock trauma platoon, basically an emergency room on the battlefield, was practicing how it would treat and evacuate casualties in the event of a possible international conflict, preparing for war, as Ville said. While the exercise was simulated, the shadow of a current war – the Ukraine war – was back of mind as Navy corpsmen and Norwegian troops got to work.
LT Kathleen Laboa
We’re trying to simulate in a lot of these exercises what we would see. Unfortunately, a lot of this is based off of the data that we had from the last conflicts in the last 10-20 years.
Drew F. Lawrence
That's Navy Lieutenant Kathleen Laboa, a trauma nurse in charge of the platoon.
LT Kathleen Laboa
There’s not a ton of data of the patterns we’re seeing now. Believe it or not, we're getting a ton of data from the casualties coming out of Ukraine. With that it's a lot of IDF, indirect fire, and also, like armory type: mortars, blasts, things of that nature.
Drew F. Lawrence
She told Fire Watch that her unit’s eyes were on the war in Ukraine as an estimated tens of thousands of Ukrainians – including civilians have been killed. Mines, drones, artillery shells, heavy ordnance used by Russia have caused many of these deaths, and with it traumatic injuries resulting in amputations, for example.
LT Kathleen Laboa
We're learning that our medical assets are going to have to be more maneuverable and a lot more flexible. It's looking like gone are the days of being able to set up massive field hospitals, that won't be a target. And where you're going to need to pack up and move quickly.
Drew F. Lawrence
Patients at the Norwegian field hospital are brought into a medical tent and evaluated by the shock trauma platoon. They’re given fluids, some corpsmen simulate putting in breathing tubes. They snap x-rays and bring casualties into an operating room where a Norwegian surgical team wields shiny medical instruments – even practicing simulated abdominal surgery.
Installments like this will take 6 hours to set up and who knows how long to tear down – you can't really afford to waste that time. So the goal is we're trying to push higher skilled providers to the front, closer to the front, so that way patients can receive care sooner. And hopefully, we're able to stabilize them.
Drew F. Lawrence
also looking at what it would be like to treat patients in massive urban environments, like They’re also looking at what it would be like to treat patients in massive urban environments, like some cities in Ukraine that have been hit with Russian rockets and artillery. That includes working out of “undesignated” vehicles, like turning vans into an ambulance if need be. The Norwegian contingent of the field tent added a surgical unit, something that the shock trauma platoon would not have on its own. Plus, they were knowledgeable in how to keep much needed medication and blood at appropriate temperatures in the often-freezing Arctic. Here's Hospital Corpsman Second Class, Zachery Matthews.
HM2 Zachery Matthews
So the friction points would be medications and blood. I think that's the biggest question. If anybody could figure out that answer, I think they would, they would solve a lot of issues coming forward into a cold weather environment. What are we going to do with these blood units that were taken out with us because blood is the first thing that needs to get on that patient?
Drew F. Lawrence
All of the troops we talked to said that they were preparing for potential conflict as part of deterring Russia. But the only way military deterrence works is if action is plausible. The little details U.S. troops are learning in exercises like this are what make it possible to say that the NATO alliance would be prepared to respond collectively if Putin decides to attack another neighbor. Thank you for listening to this episode of Fire Watch. Thank you to our guests, as well as executive producers Zach Fryer-Biggs and Jared Keller. If you enjoyed this episode, and want to let us know, give us a rating, wherever your get your podcasts. And as always, thanks for listening.
